We must not forget the protests in the province, says activist Jakob Springfeld. Antifa initiatives there are often on the defensive.

Defensive shields against AfD: demonstration in Marktoberdorf, Bavaria, January 26 Photo: Daniel Biskup

taz: Mr Springfeld, more than 100,000 people took to the streets in Munich and Berlin against the AfD. Yet you repeatedly demand that we take a look at the comparatively small protests in the province. Because?

Jacob Springfeld: Before the protests, many had lost hope of being able to stop the rise of the AfD. Before the first big weekend of protests, there were major doubts that anyone would be able to attend a protest with four days' notice. So, for example, in Döbeln there were several hundred people standing on the street. There is no saying that mass protests can stop the AfD. But people at least have hope again that they can do something.

Many protests took place this weekend in smaller places in Saxony. Why do people there find it more difficult to go out?

In many rural areas, right-wing hegemonies prevail. Many children are right-wing, especially in schools. There it is considered cool to be right-wing or to vote for the AfD. Civil society and anti-fascist initiatives are often already in a defensive position. Being there on the market square is much more difficult than in Dresden or Leipzig. That is why the question arises, especially in the province, how the protests can be sustained.

Which way?

When hundreds of people protest, as recently happened in a city like Görlitz, it becomes more difficult for neo-Nazis to attack individual people. However, if the goal is to protest periodically, there will also be days when there will only be 60 people on the street. Everything seems much more difficult.

What could help?

The solidarity network in Saxony has just been founded. The main goal is to help people in small towns with what they do in big cities like Dresden.

What would that support ideally look like?

We need to listen to local people and their concerns and not inundate them with everything we can do. We are currently trying to find one or two delegates from as many places as possible who will speak at the same level in a plenary session throughout Saxony about how they want to be supported. We are still very loosely connected and are planning a meeting soon to discuss a long-term strategy. So far we have mainly helped draft press releases or appeals. But we were also able to organize larger trips from Leipzig to Döbeln, where far-right actors had announced themselves for a counter-protest. Luckily, in the end there were only 20 people.

You were born in Zwickau and from a young age you worked there in the anti-fascist field. Are you seeing a change in mood as a result of the protests?

It's too early to estimate that. Civil society, anti-fascists and people affected by discrimination have been warning about what is happening for years. A look ahead to 2022: Björn Höcke arrived in Zwickau. Shortly before, a counterprotest had been organized that attracted more than a thousand people. This is a lot for Zwickau. But it remained an emblematic campaign. She did not change the political climate in Zwickau. Shortly afterwards, the Free Saxons demonstrated together with the AfD in dozens of demonstrations in front of refugee accommodation, where they spoke openly about the deportations and their ideas on what they call remigration. Nobody was interested in that. There was only one solidarity counterdemonstration with 20 people. It's good that the shakeup is coming now, I don't want to downplay it at all. But it depends on what we do now and whether we involve people in anti-fascist initiatives.

In your opinion, what should these initiatives achieve?

We have to take to the streets against the AfD, but also against social inequality. If there are fascists on the streets every Monday and there are no anti-fascist or democratic forces that sometimes take to the streets criticizing the traffic lights and the CDU, then, unfortunately, people with legitimate concerns often fall into the arms of the far right. Even if these fears are not legitimization. A very specific approach is to offer more low-threshold, solidarity-based community offers. Much of this work has been carried out by the right in the neighborhoods, in front of the schools, in the so-called conflict districts. For example, the Third Way, which distributes clothing and so on in winter. This hasn't happened enough from the anti-fascist side in the past. In short: what is needed is an anti-capitalist, anti-capitalist, solidarity-based left alternative.

The AfD's strongest competitor, trusted by many in conservative Saxony, is the CDU. Last Sunday, Saxony's Prime Minister Michael Kretschmer (CDU) also spoke at a rally in Görlitz. What does this mean for building anti-fascist alliances?

I'm always on the fence about this topic. The first thing we must do is build an extra-parliamentary alternative. In purely idealistic terms, I find Kretschmer's anti-refugee course wrong. At the same time he demonstrates against the AfD in Görlitz. But the situation there is also tremendously precarious. It means a lot to local people when an influential politician has their back. In Görlitz, Bautzen or Zittau, even the few CDU members who take a democratic stance and criticize the AfD are affected by hostility.

What does this mean for the upcoming regional elections in September in Saxony, Thuringia and Brandenburg?

The main thing is democracy; In that sense, many alliances are currently being formed. I get it because otherwise you'd probably be completely alone in a lot of places. But I wonder at the local or state level what that really means. AfD, FDP and CDU already collaborate in many municipalities. It doesn't matter what we do with the elections. From the perspective of civil society, we will not be able to prevent many people from voting for the AfD.

That sounds very dark.

Conditions are already difficult in many places. We should be prepared for an AfD and prepare so that an electoral victory does not directly mean the end of civil society and anti-fascist structures. This means, for example, ensuring financing for youth centers and democratic projects independently of the state level through crowdfunding and cooperative campaigns. Our main goal should not only be to reduce the percentage of the AfD, but also to present our own utopias and ideas for the future. So even on election day in Saxony, even if things don't go so well, we have visions of the future that are worth fighting for.