• The video shows what pension expert Bernd Rafflhüschen thinks about “retiring at 63”.

FOCUS online: There are too few workers in many professions and demographic changes are accelerating this shortage. What should we do, Mrs. Farin?

Annika Farin: The labor shortage is an aspect that worries us a lot in Western countries. We in Germany are the classics: we see everywhere, both among skilled workers and now also among senior managers, that we are running out of steam.

And what should happen?

Farin: Of course, it makes sense to say: Okay, if there isn't enough growth from below, seniors might work longer. I want to add to this an ethical component: I believe that work is truly meaningful. Lack of work not only means economic losses, but is often also accompanied by the loss of social contacts. I think people today, at 65 or 70 years old, have a different state of mind than the previous generation. You can also work longer.

But this is something completely different from what politics, especially social democracy, has been preaching for 100 years: that people have the right to retire. Shouldn't you ever stop working?

Farin: Why should it end at some point when people find work meaningful? I believe people should be able to make individual decisions about their retirement. Of course there is a biological limit, but fundamentally we have to trust people to make those decisions for themselves. Let me give you an example: my partner is a surgeon. He excitedly told me that a former nurse had introduced herself. She is 75 years old and they asked her if she could go back to work. Then they checked if there were any restrictions. That was not the case. He is in a very good mood and now comes once a week and helps. And she is happy.

So a prescribed retirement is not an option for you?

Farin: The idea behind this is: everything that is leisure is good and everything that is work is bad. I think that's wrong anyway. This idea comes from a time when we worked a lot physically. But today many are not exhausted even after 40 years of work.

What they say turns the entire pension system upside down. Should we even define a retirement age?

Farin: I am not a pension expert. But we all know that things cannot continue like this. An increasing proportion of our budgets goes to pensions and pension benefits. If we don't start seeing this in a more individualized way, collapse will come. We have to tell citizens this truth.

What do you think of the term work-life balance?

Farin: The term is incorrect. Work and life are neither bad nor good, but are inextricably intertwined.

But there is a case for older employees sometimes quitting their jobs. Companies need young people, they have to be able to develop. You have to detect trends. Younger people can do some of these things better.

Farin: It is not that older workers do not give up their jobs at all. It is about finding models of how older people can carefully accompany the change. Why can't someone move from a leadership position to an expert role? This is often poorly managed. Someone stays in their role until the end and then leaves abruptly. The dialogue between different generations is incredibly fruitful. Expert roles can also be enriched with responsibility, so that people who previously held management positions are also prepared for it.

There are truisms: young people are more curious and faster. Older people have more experience and do not follow all the trends. Are there other skills that can be assigned to different generations?

Farin: Not 1:1. Of course, it is clear that the so-called young people are much more intuitive when it comes to mastering and using technology. At the same time, this often leads to shortening, which I sometimes observe and find unfortunate. In most areas of work and life, technology makes incredible sense. But it should not shorten or impede your own intellectual creative process. I see – and I already associate it indirectly with this topic – that older people trust much more intuitively in their own knowledge and, therefore, tend to have a greater tendency towards abstraction. However, in general I think we are making a mistake if we want to assign skills to age groups. I think it's precisely these kinds of stereotypical views that are wrong.

Can younger people learn faster than older people?

Farin: Today there is research in psychology that indicates that the pace of learning can be greatly stimulated even at older ages. However, this requires intensive prior use of brain cells. It has been observed that older people who learn three new things at the same time, such as painting, a language, and a type of puzzle, are generally able to relearn faster. This shows parallels with the learning behavior of very young people. What I want to say is: we should offer older people many more opportunities to learn, especially at work. All of our learning is still essentially focused on the younger years. Who can say that is correct? Can't we, as a society, make learning much more creative and view it in a more positive light? I would think of a few things.

Politicians are actually the best role models and they don't need to stop working as they get older. The American president is at an age when others have long since become senile. Are guys like that a role model? Is Joe Biden a role model?

Farin: These are absolutely isolated phenomena. But I would say it should end at some point.

How do you do that when you have candidates who are 63 years old? Do you recommend them to your clients or companies with a clear conscience?

Farin: This is actually happening more and more. We deal with it very openly. Clients also approach it very openly. Much more open than ten years ago. The willingness of companies to hire these types of people has increased significantly. The age limits have changed. If before there was a question mark behind such a candidate from the age of 50, now it only happens when all six are in front.

How does the 60-year-old himself cope? Do you want to talk about his age or are you embarrassed?

The candidates themselves mention it to us from the beginning. There is some uncertainty there. But we often say: we think it's a good idea to have a conversation. Of course, we have to make a good case if we send an older candidate into the race. We need to be specific about why this candidate is the right fit. But if I have a 59-year-old man who can do a lot of things and two younger candidates who have a third less qualifications, I would always prefer the older one. If he stays until he's 67, it will be another eight years. He can still make incredible progress during this time. Those who enter the ring at that age also want it and achieve an incredible amount.

Are there national differences on this issue?

Farin: Absolutely. The immobility with which we position ourselves in Germany is unique.

How do you value the currently much maligned Generation Z?

Farin: So far we have fewer of them on the client side, but what we see is: Generation Z is more self-confident. The importance of work to their own identity is not as essential for them as it is for those over 50. From the beginning, Generation Z puts the different pillars of life side by side and then says: I want to go play sports on Thursday afternoon. Is it bad? No, it is not, if as a result the enthusiasm for work does not decrease, but even increases. So that's exactly right. It's about ensuring that Generation Z doesn't lose enthusiasm for their work. And I think that works.

What will artificial intelligence change in the labor market? Does it scare you or do you see more opportunities?

Farin: I clearly see the opportunities, but we have to manage them. Sometimes I am surprised by the naivety with which we approach it. We need to know what's going on in the background. It has become incredibly easy to defeat people with the help of artificial intelligence.

Finally: What are your own life plans? Do you want to work until you drop?

Farin: I really enjoy working. I am happy about every new topic and the people who inspire me. Selfishly alone, he wanted to be there for a long time. But of course everything has its limits, I don't want to be an imposition on anyone.